Category Archives: Integration

Gay Marriage: Buddha with TMichael

October 12, 2008 T. Michael

Gay Marriage, https://conversationswithjesusandbuddha.com/gay-marriage/ ‎ — Gay marriage

Conversation with Master Buddha and TMichael: Gay Marriage

TM: I’ve been reading news accounts of the battle between those who favor gay marriage being sanctioned under law and those who oppose it. Some oppose it on religious grounds and some on biological grounds in that it doesn’t facilitate pro-creation naturally. What is your view on the religious grounds for or against gay marriage?

Master Buddha: If a man and a woman have sexual intercourse, there is a probability pregnancy will result, and a second probability that child birth will follow. This is commonly known and understood in modern society. That wasn’t always the case—many centuries ago it was a mystery how offspring were conceived by the vast majority of human population. There arose from the mystery many superstitions around conception and child birth. Conception and child birth require the engagement of male and female contributing each their part. This is a biologic fact. It doesn’t require a social bond to be successful. As a matter of modern fact, it doesn’t require that they ever physically engage in person (artificial insemination).

TM: Ok, I’m with you so far. Creating babies follows sex between a man and a woman, or by artificial means. A long time ago, and I hope a very long time ago, people didn’t quite make the connection and so developed superstitious beliefs around baby-making.

Master Buddha: So, by biologic fact a gay male marriage cannot produce offspring between the two partners, but can enlist a female outside the marriage to perform that role. The same of course then for two female partners. This means that gay couples are capable of producing offspring by proxy of a third partner if they so desire. This is the same for heterosexual couples who are unable to conceive a child. It merely accommodates the biologic fact.

TM: If it’s a biologic fact, then how does it become a religious issue or even a social concern?

Master Buddha: I’m pulling this apart for you, because it can get very tangled. At some point in human history there was a shift in social belief that the chief role of marriage between a man and woman was to create offspring. To ensure that their offspring would not just be running around in reckless abandon they also created social convention around the single-family household and the early beginnings of property rights. The child belonged to the parents and the household and was subject to their supervision and responsibility, and they together as a household subject to the larger society and community.

TM: You’re saying it was a social evolution, not a religious one. Is that correct?

Master Buddha: It is difficult to separate religion from social, because religion is a social enterprise. This is why this subject is so impossible for some people to intellectually grasp. I will continue now to explain.

Religion is a social enterprise, which means that humans have created religions and formed into social sects in order to propagate their religious beliefs and social tenets.

TM: Hold on a second, almost all religious people will say that religions were created by God, or Gods through prophets or enlightened intermediaries (present company included), and that they are followers of that particular religious teaching. God laid the foundation and they followed his word to build on it.

Master Buddha: Please refer to other conversations we’ve had on the subject of truth and how it is convoluted with faith and a state of not knowing everything. Humans will posit truth on a great many things, but that doesn’t make it true. It is merely their belief in what is true. Let’s assume for a moment that religions were founded on direct expression of truth from God or Gods. Humans, as you suggest, interpret that and build on it to make it a social belief system. The filter applied is still of human origin, and therefore subject to the ignorance of humanity.

TM: I don’t mean to stray from our topic, but this seems important to clear up, because so much of what follows is dependent upon this point. You’re saying that religions are social institutions and are birthed and propagated as social tenets, not the word of God.

Master Buddha: I don’t wish to belabor the point of origin of religious beliefs, and so for our discussion I said we could assume that religions spring from the word of God or Gods. Humans the take that word and add to it their interpretations and filter it into social conventions by which they live. That means that religions become social entities imbued with human constructs of socialized behavior. May we continue?

TM: Yes, but maybe we have to come back to this at some point.

Master Buddha: The great problem for humanity in building laws that govern society is that they cannot separate social convention from religious teachings. Gay marriage as it relates to law must pass through the filters of social convention, which is conditioned by religious beliefs. So you can easily see the conundrum. And this provokes a challenge to the truths held by those who believe that the word of God prohibits such human relations.

For them the syllogism flows like this:
God has said that the purpose of a man|woman relationship is to create babies and form single-family households and rear their offspring.
Gay couples cannot create babies directly.
Therefore, gay marriage is not sanctioned by God, and must be excluded from human options.

For religious believers, denying this logic is tantamount to denying the word of God. It will then undermine a society based upon the word of God and eventually lead to the ruin of society. How it reconciles with many other words of God in which it produces conflict and contradiction is inconvenient, but doesn’t cause their belief to waver. They must default to the only intellectual escape possible, which is that God is mysterious and knows more than humankind, and so it isn’t the place of humanity to question this contradiction. It is for humanity to follow the things that are clear as well as the things that aren’t without fail. God will sort it out later.

TM: Yes, I believe you’ve stated that correctly according to what they believe. But is that correct?

Master Buddha: The question is presented incorrectly. Let me re-frame it. What is the role of religion for humanity and what is the role of social convention in creating laws that govern human behavior?

TM: So, you won’t just come right out with an answer to settle the question will you?

Master Buddha: I’m taking an approach that will help you understand the issue and formulate an answer. As we have stated previously in these conversations, the role of religion is to represent spiritual theories for individuals to ponder in an effort to expand their imaginations and range of possibilities for living a better life. Religions form from spiritual ideas and concepts, that in the pure state apply to an individual. Religions become social institutions because they are comprised of like-minded individuals. The purpose of which is to share and discuss the spiritual idea and concepts.

Humans have taken religions in this social form and expanded them into governance entities. Therein lies the problem. It sets up massive conflicts between different religions and between members of society who subscribe to those different religious beliefs. The only way for a system of religious-dominant laws to work without constant and violent conflict is too segregate inhabitants by religion and assign each to their own geographic place. Since that isn’t practical today, you must have a different way. Democratic societies have created a separation of religion and government. Ideally, this should work in a pluralistic religious society. But, it doesn’t work as perfectly as intended, because those who are aligned with religious beliefs that have been interpreted to guide their daily lives in an integrated society, immediately come in conflict with behaviors they find inconsistent with their beliefs. The resulting dissonance cries for resolution. They seek to alter laws to remove the dissonance.

TM: I can see why you’re not so popular with Christians and Muslims. From what I observe both religious groups would love for everyone to line up with them to rule the world according to their beliefs. In that scenario they could outlaw all the behaviors inconsistent with their beliefs and presumably find the harmony in governance.

Master Buddha: Well, secretly all religious groups wish for that scenario, but some are more vocal than others.

TM: Years ago when I visited Nepal and spent some time in Kathmandu, I noticed the incredible non-hostile melding of Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims and Christians. But back to our topic. How do we bring this conversation to a conclusion?

Master Buddha: Gay marriage could only be subject to religious scrutiny within a purely religious context. Religious context is confined to individuals and their peers for introspection. Social institutions that are erected for governance must take into consideration that there are many types of life styles and it is the responsibility of government to create laws that promote harmony among the differences while removing violence. The fact that gays must seek legal sanction within your laws informs us that the separation between government and religion is not yet a reality.

TM: Will it ever be?

Master Buddha: It’s possible of course, but only when people representing religions surrender to living peacefully with others with different beliefs and abstain from their agendas of hegemony in thought and behavior.

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Integration and Disintegration: Buddha with TMichael

June 30, 2008 T. Michael

Integration and Disintegration, https://conversationswithjesusandbuddha.com/integration-and-disintegration/ ‎ — Integration and disintegration

Conversation with Buddha and TMichael: Integration and Disintegration

TM: I feel like for many years I have tried to integrate my human self with my spiritual self. At times I feel I have reached some measure of success only to witness set backs in the form of failures in my life—failures to live purely in my convictions, or failures in relationships, etc. How can we feel one moment in the complete bliss of integration and then later as if things have become unraveled?

Master Buddha: There is a natural progression toward integration that includes disintegration. It’s the same as when you try to affix one object to another and the seal is not set just right. Maybe there is debris mixed in the seal. Maybe there are gaps in the seal. Whether it’s obstruction or space, the seal is not complete and can be easily pried apart with the least amount of stress to one of the objects. Your human personality and your spirit work in a similar fashion.

Once you are inspired and begin to inquire about your spiritual nature you begin to receive information about spirit. You begin to look at your human life through a new filter. You begin to question your life and its meaning. This is the beginning of integration.

Recognize what is happening even in this beginning. There is a natural disintegration of your human personality, that is, due to new, incoming information from spirit your personality begins to fragment and parts begin to modify. Some parts you may let go—destruction. Some parts you may transform. But what was before is no longer the same. Disintegration within the personality has occurred. At the same time, integration has begun between spirit and personality. However minute that may be, it is an integration.

There is a series of cycles of integration and disintegration that occurs. This may go on for a period of time until the tension resolves and you conclude that you have settled on a point of integration. That is what you describe as the point of bliss.

That state persists for some time until there is a crisis, which disturbs that state. New tension is created and you begin the cycle of disintegration—the tension must be resolved. Suddenly you may realize that all the beliefs you adopted in your quest for spiritual alignment where somehow off. You shed them as a snake sheds his skin. Now you are disintegrating your spiritual concepts.

The process is one by which personality disintegrates, spirit disintegrates, the combination of the two in relationship disintegrates and then it begins a new cycle of integration.

TM: So when do we know we’ve reached the final point of integration? How long will this go on? It’s tiring and almost maddening.

MB: It is no different really than my opening example. It continues until you have properly removed the debris or space between the two objects of integration.

TM: Won’t there always be things we can’t or don’t know about ourselves, personally or spiritually?

MB: This is the great challenge of enlightenment—when do you reach that point? Who can know, perhaps one who is fully enlightened? But how do you know who that is if you are not fully enlightened yourself? Is that not the basis of faith? Faith covers the gap between what you know to be true and what you don’t know. It is the motivation to continue, because you believe in the process.

TM: Makes me want to give up at times and say this is bogus, a waste of time.

MB: Yes, and for a while you might do that. That’s a point of disintegration between your personality and your spiritual self. When faith or belief in the process can’t be the salve to satisfy the tension, then abandonment is a choice. That’s natural.

TM: So, that happens, then what? Why would I get on the treadmill again?

MB: You may not. You may decide to live from the perspective that your personality is all there is. That the state of personality is all there is for everybody and that is your world. You may find some new evidence that pushes you back into inquiry, which starts the cycle of integration and disintegration again.

TM: I’ve done both of those things. It’s wearing me out.

MB: Yet it continues. So, something within you pushes through the haze and says try again. What pushes?

TM: I don’t know, something happens and it starts again. Maybe I should pay attention, but it seems like before I know it I’m inquiring again.

MB: Well, let that be a mystery for now. As you progress through the cycle maybe that is revealed for you. Then it will be okay for a while until something else happens to disturb it.

TM: So, basically you’re saying that it is a struggle forever and I’ll either engage the process or I won’t.

MB: I’m not saying it’s a struggle forever. I’m saying that it’s a struggle for as long as it is and that it doesn’t really matter how long it takes. Until such time that your spiritual self can tap into its essence within your personality and transmute it into a reflection of spirit, you will go through various stages of integration and disintegration. Your impatience may serve you to keep trying or it may persuade you to abandon the process. Your choice.

TM: Yeah, I always come back.

MB: One simple truth is that you don’t really have a choice in the long run. You can abandon the process for a while or you can push too hard and feel frustrated. But your spiritual self is never dormant or absent. Spirit isn’t time-constrained, as is your personality. And that may be something you have to take upon faith. Maybe you already accept that, but have to just not think about it for a while. It doesn’t matter. You will eventually resume the cycle. That is the natural order of life on earth.

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Jesus Answers A Reader’s Questions: Jesus with TMichael

September 2, 2005 T. Michael 1 Comment

A Readers Question, https://conversationswithjesusandbuddha.com/a-readers-question/ — A reader’s question

Conversation with Jesus and TMichael: Jesus Answers a Reader’s Question

TMichael: Christine C. submitted the following questions. Your sincere questions are welcome and I’ll do my best to include them in a conversation for publication from time to time.

Q: Christine C. asks:
“It is written that our DNA is many strands short of what was originally intended for “human beings”, and that unseen powers (to us earthlings) altered DNA. I agree that humans have spiritually existed primarily from faith as our awareness is veiled for reasons possibly connected to the same powers (or for the continued exercise of faith?). At what point does the planet deserve divine assistance, possibly in reconnecting the DNA, thus greater awareness and resulting better health? When does the veil lift for humanity? What purpose does the veil serve?”

A: Master Jesus: There are many perspectives on what has happened on Earth to interfere with humanity’s progress. This is a major one and the ones making the claim do so without complete disclosure of the facts. While they are well-intentioned in their aim, they are withholding information about their own role in this ordeal. I will not go into to the detail, but I will summarize by saying that there was a heated dispute around the DNA issue, and the prevailing side took advantage of a technicality to rush their point of view into place. The group who caused publication of this claim created the technical default through their actions. So, while the outcome is as you have stated, the motives behind it were not sinister as has been portrayed.

It does not matter what could have been, we must take responsibility for what it is now. Divine assistance, meaning assistance from the spiritual realm, has been and continues to be an integral part of the evolution of Earth. There are at present over 3 billion spirit beings attached to Earth service. Some reside within the sphere and others work from distant posts. The dedication and loyalty to humanity is unsurpassed.

Some humans are ready for higher levels of awareness, but most are not. It is our role to lift those who are unprepared to a point that they can receive greater awareness. We do so by offering love and light to all who live upon Earth. We work diligently with individuals and groups to open their senses and their understanding to higher ideals.

The veil, as you call it, represents the darkness of ignorance. Humanity must take responsibility for its part. So long as humanity’s focus is steeped predominately in materiality, ignorance of your true essence will be concealed. The deeper your daily lives become intertwined in material survival and accumulation of material security, the less energy you have for discovering the truth about yourselves. Humanity has the power to turn this around. Those of us in the spiritual realm are here to assist and stand ready to offer all that is needed.

Q: Christine C. asks:
“From another perspective, it is written that this marvelous Earth is the place for emotional healing, divine healing, from the original cause. It is easy to see that if we each heal individually, if we are fortunate enough to have the tools for understanding, that the resulting connection with each other is another path to awareness. Again we are pulling in other “times” of our existence for which we are now responsible. Is this also deserving of divine help on a world wide or even universal scale to assist in blowing away the mists of misperception, thus clearing the way for more wonderful loving vistas?”

A: Master Jesus: This is true. A key to understanding the potential is to discover the minimum of your own. That serves as inspiration to continue and to connect with others along the lines of love and light. Those terms, love and light, are used often and yet what do we mean by them? In these conversations we have talked much about love and what it is, but never can we do justice to the complete experience of love through these words. Light understanding is in a similar predicament. The two go together in a way that makes a description feeble in capturing the true experience. And yet the faithful, those who have glimpsed even a moment of the experience witness to others the splendor achieved. Who is insane? Who is misinformed? Is it the one who clings to material possessions and property rights as supreme to human rights? Or is it the one who claims spiritual sovereignty in the face of doubt and contradiction?

Your better human nature is pitted against your false concepts of reality and it is a battle that shall conclude in victory for the better nature. How you get there is your choice as well as how long it takes. Each generation is challenged with living with, through and transforming to some small degree, the actions of previous generations. Be gentle with yourselves as you evaluate your progress within each turn. Love and light shall be yours. It only requires your openness to receive. Once you receive it you will share it, and once you share it you will rejoice in its endless bounty.

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I Want My Spirituality Now: Jesus and TMichael

July 30, 2005 T. Michael 3 Comments

I Want My Spirituality Now, https://conversationswithjesusandbuddha.com/i-want-my-spirituality-now/ — Spirituality now

Conversation with Jesus and TMichael: Spirituality and Patience

TM: Oftentimes I feel the undercurrent of impatience in spiritual matters. I want it all to happen immediately and in complete fullness.

Master Jesus: The knowing is not of the mind or of logic. It just is and you know it by feeling it, not thinking it. It is a hard corner to turn if the mind is doing the driving. For the ego and the mind, knowing from the heart represents self-destruction, which in turn, goes against survival instincts. The mind is so clever in that way. It’s a house of mirrors. Everywhere you see a way out; that is indeed just another mirror. There is no escape through the mind or by the mind. That is my point and yet it appears I am appealing to your logical mind to embrace this, but that isn’t the case. I’m strengthening your soul to tap your spirit that holds the key to your power that unlocks your heart that alters the mind that frees you from the illusion.

TM: I suppose the biggest frustration I experience with spirituality is the shroud of secrecy surrounding it. Of course, we are fascinated with what we can’t sense in our physical world. But it seems like you could make things appear in our sensory form that would make things much clearer and universally understood. Why don’t you do that?

Master Jesus: Have you never the noticed the many similarities found in all the world’s religions and customs? Throughout the centuries, humanity has received the transfer of knowledge from the spirit world. This has been in many forms including human incarnations of master teachers, appearance of masters in visible spirit forms, demonstrations for non-believers of feats beyond human ability and inspiration channeled directly to humans in all fields of earthly creation. Remember that until recently the population of humans worldwide has been relatively developed in isolation. In the last few hundred years has commerce between continents developed to such a point that sharing of cultures has become more prevalent and thus an education in how other people interpret social and religious events.

The stage is being set for what you are clamoring for, but it can only come when there are universal points of recognition and understanding. Again, it is human tendency to view things from a present and provincial point of view without the longer time interval needed for events to ripen. We are making more revelations worldwide now than in any period of human history. You take it for granted because you don’t have the memory of all the other epochs. Also, you have instant communication tools that never before existed, which makes news travel so much faster. What was once a communication barrier is slowly being lifted to make it possible for teaching to be at once universal in language and delivered to people worldwide instantly. That’s quite an opportunity, wouldn’t you agree?

TM: I agree it’s an opportunity. But where’s the evidence of revelations in a universal language and experience that everyone can breathe the big Ah-ha at the same time?

Master Jesus: It’s coming. There has to be preparation. That’s where these writings and many others are going to lead. You have to accept that revelation of truth is not an easy task, because it generally differs from what the majority has accepted through faith and experience as truth. You have already said so yourself in your own wrestling with what we have to say. Do you think you’re so unique in that regard?

TM: No, I know what you mean and it’s very frustrating and so I keep putting my hope in the spirit world to be so awesome in power that you can instantly overcome these obstacles in human ignorance and make it all better. Childish I know, but it’s part of me nevertheless.

Master Jesus: When someone is in the pain of the moment it’s natural to want relief immediately. But what if the pain was due to psychosomatic causes instead of real flesh and blood injuries? You would take a different course of treatment wouldn’t you? Emotional distortions and mental delusions require a longer time period to work through. It isn’t so cut and dried as strapping on a bandage or committing to surgery. Humanity has evolved to the point that these other issues are predominant and that’s the field we’re working. The chief reason why physical wars and threats are no longer sufficient to quell dissent and discord within and among nations is that people will no longer accept the servitude explicit in that arrangement. They will literally die fighting against it.

TM: But in Iraq and Afghanistan people were living under horrific oppression of their freedoms and they did nothing but endure it. Where was the revolution?

Master Jesus: Had the US allowed it to run its course you would have seen the revolution. Everything within its time and when outside interests force revolution before its time, then the forces of premature revolution become the new oppressors and will have to reckon with real agents of revolution eventually. The US will discover this is true. The old ways of command and control through wars and might do not work any longer. You are witnessing the decline of those methods in this generation. Just three generations ago if anyone had made these statements it would have been received with such incredulity as you cannot imagine. But today you sense that it’s true, even if you’re not sure, you know it’s possible.

TM: I don’t know. I hear what you’re saying and I believe it to some degree, but we still witness so much violence that it’s hard not to see the opposite condition.

Master Jesus: Your impatience is staggering at times. And it’s not just your impatience, it’s all those who wish for immediate solutions to problems that are ancient. That’s not an excuse, but an explanation that what has been created by humanity over millions of years cannot be rectified in one generation without the will of the entire populace behind it, and that simply isn’t happening. So, your hoped for solution is that there be some sort of divine intervention to set things right, to speed up the process. We have covered this and you understand it, right?

TM: Yes, I do. Thanks for reminding me though. You know what I really want? I want for you and Master Buddha and all the rest to walk among us; sit in the chambers of our governments and address our leaders and representatives; visit our religious institutions and seize the pulpits; lead the classrooms in our schools; and really just be among us everyday to provide the guidance we need. It’s the physical presence I want.

Master Jesus: All in good time, my friend. The leadership you’re seeking is already among you. It’s just that their voices cannot be heard at this time. Well, not entirely heard, but they are growing in number and positions of strength. For one who listens they can be heard. Soon all will hear and then you can decide what you want to do. I repeat, it is humanity’s decision and will that determines the next stage for Earth. As much as you would like to shuffle it to others it is yours. You will be given a fair and informed opportunity to make your collective decision. Don’t look for someone to take that responsibility for you.

TM: Our orientation to spirits, gods, heroes and the lot is deeply engrained. We like being rescued in the final hour. You’re saying that’s not going to happen? There is going to be an Armageddon?

Master Jesus: That’s a loaded question in many ways. The struggle is within humanity—it is your Armageddon.

TM: In reference to biblical scripture and even esoteric revelations, there is a war in the heavens between light and dark forces, good and evil, the mark of the beast, all that stuff. A lot of folks say it’s happening now. Explain what you mean by ‘humanity’s Armageddon’.

Master Jesus: Humanity has created crisis within itself. It’s the crisis that has been prophesied. But it’s not external forces using humans as puppets as your stories are telling. That is part of the illusion created. Humans have so convinced themselves that there are forces of evil and darkness that are in constant pursuit of them that they literally believe it is a race to the finish between good and evil. The problem is that they can’t decide if they are inherently good or inherently evil. Which is it? If they are good, then Satan (or any substitute for him) is using every trick in the book to lure them into devilish insanity. If they are evil, then they must use all their being to return to God and forsake their wicked thoughts and ways.

I’m not going to pretend that there isn’t a real experience of evil at the level of illusion, but it simply isn’t real on the spiritual plane and ultimately it is the spiritual plane that counts. We’ve been through this discussion and I understand how difficult it is to accept that much of what you experience in life isn’t real. Eventually you’ll see and that’s all I can say for now.

TM: It’s very frustrating to hear that. Because I don’t know what’s real and what isn’t. You say love is real and everything else isn’t. But how do I know what is real love and what is the illusion of love?

Master Jesus: You don’t know it; you feel it. But you can’t feel it if you live inside your mind. And your mind manufactures the belief system to keep you in the illusion because knowledge is perceived as power and safety. As long as that is the cycle then that is your trap as well. You are imprisoned by your beautiful mind; that mind that is so wonderfully creative. You have to admire it. That level of creativity is astounding. But it isn’t serving you to stay there. Love is from the heart and uses the mind in a reality that isn’t inverted like humanity’s. That is the next stage of evolution.

TM: That’s a hard corner to turn it seems. I don’t trust that I know my heart from my desire that may spring from thoughts or my lower nature. How do I know the heart and trust that is the source of my desire?

TM: In other words, that understanding is buried within me?

Master Jesus: Your spirit knows all that I’m saying. Your soul struggles in the space between spirit and human consciousness. Integration is the aim and the purpose of life on Earth.

TM: But what then? What happens when there is integration?

Master Jesus: That is for another time.

TM: One thing mastered at a time?

Master Jesus: That’s right.

TM: So what can people do to help this process along?

Master Jesus: It’s different for each person, but let me offer stereotypical descriptions. For those beings who are on the path so to speak—they have stimulated their spiritual awareness and are questioning their everyday experiences looking for spiritual significance in what they do—the path will lead to actions that set an example for others who have not yet awakened. Those actions will consist of sharing, compassion, non-violence in relationships, acceptance and a willingness to separate their identification with aggressive materialism. They will exhibit an increasing kindness in their daily affairs and less concern for what they own. As a matter of fact they will feel that they have too much and begin to sell or giveaway many of their belongings without any effort to replace them with new items. Material acquisition will no longer satisfy their emotional needs.

It is no secret that many people in the West have buried themselves under mounds of debt in order to acquire vast stores of material items. As this trend reverses it will bring relief to the pressure that many people feel to keep up with the pace of spending and earning. At first it may feel a little painful or lacking in some way, but very soon after that brief phase they will find gratification in the challenge of living within their means and reducing their means in order to enjoy the many insights they are now experiencing.

TM: Our US economy and to a growing degree the world economy is based upon increasing consumption and production. The fear, of course, is that if it stops or slows down real economic problems go into effect.

Master Jesus: This is truly the belief and one that has been carefully planted to keep the factories rolling. The group of people who will at first experiment with reduction and gradual separation from this practice will discover that the economic destruction and collapse is false. Your economy has these periodic problems anyway. Those episodes seem more severe because you’re still in the old paradigm of earn and spend without cessation. Once enough people do it willingly and with a sense of grace, the severity will not be a part of the experience.

TM: As a brief aside, who planted the idea “to keep the factories rolling”?

Master Jesus: It’s just part of the story of developing materialism and wealth and power. There is nothing sinister or improper about how the story came to be. Commerce through the advances of the industrial period has served humanity in many positive ways. It has run it’s course in its current form and now it’s time to change it. The citizens of Earth have created this and are the ones to change it.

TM: What can other people do who may not fit into the description you gave?

Master Jesus: Witness. They may not be ready to do anything other than observe and that is okay because eventually they will see that their fears are unwarranted. For the more advanced souls, teaching the ones in the middle will be their role. Thus you have these three major segments.

TM: It sounds like it’s more a profile of Western society and countries with strong economic positions. What will it look like in the weaker economic countries?

Master Jesus: The profile will shape up to be similar, but the pace will be delayed. They will not spend as much time at the levels experienced in the stronger economic countries. And by stronger and weaker we are clearly referring to a definition that measures production and consumption. Since many people in the weaker economies have not developed habits of over-consumption they will not have the same sort of withdrawal fears that people in the stronger economies face. For many, just having the basics will be satisfactory.

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Health and Balance: Jesus and TMichael

July 7, 2005 T. Michael 3 Comments

Health and Balance, https://conversationswithjesusandbuddha.com/health_and_balance/ ‎ — Health and balance

Conversation with Jesus and TMichael: Health and Balance

TM: Can you speak to issues of health?

Master Jesus: Yes.

TM: How is human health affected one way or another by our degree of spiritual awareness?

Master Jesus: As you become spiritually aware you make different choices. You will make different choices regarding things directly affecting your health as well as those things that affect your health indirectly. We have talked about the role of judgment. Even those at the higher levels of spiritual awareness can possess the characteristics of judgment, which can adversely affect their health. That’s an example of how choices that may seem unrelated can affect health issues. The more obvious choices most people know about, but they may choose to continue unhealthy behavior. Or they may become so opposed to those behaviors that they develop unhealthy reactions to themselves or others engaging in those behaviors.

It’s not so easy to provide a list of do’s and don’ts. Having a set of rules seems the right thing for many people, but in the long run it only runs a greater danger of producing intolerance and a judgmental nature, which can and is more dangerous to the health of humanity.

Spiritual enlightenment is not so much about one right way for everyone as it is about discovering the right way of living for each one. There will indeed emerge a set of principles to guide society in everyday affairs, but I wish to point out that without a spiritual awareness on the individual level, the societal guidelines will suffer. As individuals progress in understanding and spiritual intelligence, they will raise the standards of societal behavior. Society cannot rise higher than the largest group of enlightened beings in its ranks.

TM: How does disease, as we describe it, and the health issues you’re describing intersect? Aren’t there viruses and bacteria that wreak havoc with our bodies that have nothing to do with spiritual enlightenment?

Master Jesus: There is a host of factors to consider when examining the full spectrum of human health issues beyond spiritual enlightenment. But that will be the bedrock that all systems can be built upon. Bacteria and viruses are living organisms as are humans and animals and plants and so on. If you truly want to understand the role of each organism in the evolution of Earth, then study the past. If you want to know the future roles of organisms study the present. Humans have so upset the balance in nature that microorganisms are reacting in record numbers. You have only begun to see the potential of these organisms. The present path will force a collision of humans and microorganisms on a scale that is beyond your imagination. Much of this is unavoidable at this point, but much can be done to avert disaster on a large scale.

TM: Are you talking about epidemics?

Master Jesus: Yes. You remember our discussion about Armageddon? This is one of the ways it will work out. This is a result of humanity’s actions, not that of a vengeful God punishing you.

TM: I remember a quote, “You are not punished for your sins as you are by them. And the same for your virtues, in that you’re not rewarded for them as you are by living them.” So, how did we create the ground for epidemics?

Master Jesus: Ecosystems are in balance when all living organisms operate within their sphere and natural tendency. Humans have taken the role as lead and dominant species because of divine right. With that right comes responsibility. Humans are made up of all that exists in the world; so, there isn’t a thing that isn’t you.

TM: I must interrupt. You’re saying by divine right? What does that mean?

Master Jesus: Let me restate that to say by divine order. There is a hierarchy of life, both on Earth as there is in the universe at large. The hierarchy is determined by characteristics inherent in each species that create specific roles to maintain harmony and balance in the whole system. It allows that there are times of disharmony and imbalance, but the correction comes as a result of each species finding its role. Despite the belief that the universe is largely random and chaotic, which it certainly appears to human observation, there is an order beyond your comprehension.

TM: Beyond our comprehension or beyond our ability to see?

Master Jesus: Both. It is something you must take on faith, or belief without evidence. Among those of us who witness wonders in the universe beyond anything humans see, we can barely glimpse the order even as we comprehend it.

TM: Suddenly I feel like the dumbest kid in class.

Master Jesus: Someday humans will comprehend it, but first things first. For now, and this is what makes it such a challenge to teach as well as to accept as truth, it will be a matter of faith. Humans do as well with matters of faith as any being. It always comes down to trusting the motivation and knowledge of the source.

TM: Back to what you were saying, there is nothing in the world that isn’t us. I skipped too many science classes to understand that one.

Master Jesus: There are basic qualities of energy that compose life on Earth, which are in turn reflected in the chemistry of material existence. Humans are composed of all those basic qualities of energy found in every species on Earth. The two most abused beliefs by humans are that humans have dominion over all species and survival of the fittest species. The unremarkable intelligence that springs from those simplistic notions is creating your own Armageddon. Your role as steward has been usurped by your pride as being superior. Your role as spiritual leader has been sabotaged by your fear of spirit. Without a turnaround in these conditions, you will have to experience the consequences of these beliefs carried to their natural conclusion.

TM: To clarify, are you saying that humans don’t have dominion and that survival of the fittest is inaccurate?

Master Jesus: Humans have reduced the meaning of those truths to rationalize behavior that is inconsistent with the integrity of those truths.

TM: So, what I’m gleaning from these discussions is that we’re pretty much screwed on a number of fronts from economics to epidemics if we don’t change our ways. Is that it?

Master Jesus: You will experience the reality you have created. The masters and I want to give you every opportunity to recognize that you are creating the reality and that you will experience it as you create it; so, pay attention to what and how you’re creating.

TM: When you say masters, that sounds very Eastern. It may not be understood in the West.

Master Jesus: It means teachers. We use it as a way of deference to one who has achieved a high degree of understanding and enlightenment. And while some prerogatives of authority come with the title, it is largely a title of achievement.

TM: Whom do the Masters teach?

Master Jesus: They mostly work with disciples on the spiritual plane, who in turn work with disciples on the physical plane. However, we have begun to teach directly to those on the physical plane as a matter of expedience and some small measure of experiment.

TM: What kind of experiment?

Master Jesus: We want to see how rapidly humans can assimilate spiritual knowledge if a master administers it directly. If this successfully accelerates the process, then we will organize group sessions for those who are ready.

TM: Is this the first time this has happened?

Master Jesus: Periodically we test for receptivity along these lines. This happens to be one of those times.

TM: Lately I feel these discussions have taken on a stream of consciousness, that is, flitting from one thought to the other without ever finishing one thought. I wonder if this will deter from what you need to convey.

Master Jesus: What would you like to conclude?

TM: All this Armageddon business spurs more questions than answers to me. Please summarize the health issues relative to spiritual progress.

Master Jesus: I’m expressing these ideas in the most accessible way for most people to understand it. It’s time to expand beyond ideological boundaries and reach common understanding.

Spiritual progress is needed on the individual and group levels at this time. The time is critical due to the fact that humans have created a reality that is headed for disaster. Before it reaches the point of no return, you are given a chance to become aware of your actions and the consequences. Then you must decide what you will do. Health issues are wrapped up in the whole system. I can’t separate them for you or explain their nature out of context. Deterioration of human health is and will ensue at an increasingly rapid pace despite the illusion of medical advancements to cure disease. The root cause of this can only be corrected at the spiritual level, because it is from there that the physical level will conform to new understandings.

TM: People don’t understand disease and “why me” is the big question. I know folks who live very pure lives; healthy attitudes and diets, and yet they suffer through all sorts of physical maladies. How can you tell them the root cause is something spiritual?

Master Jesus: I can’t tell them the cause of their illness is spiritual unless I know them. I’m speaking in broad terms for the bulk of humanity, not for specific individuals. Having a healthy diet and being spiritually inclined is helpful, but there are so many variables that can trigger an illness. Often, for spiritual people, an illness reflects a clearing that they are ready for; meaning that they have reached a point that they can clear energy from their body that they have been carrying for a lifetime perhaps. It may be clearing from past lives. Very few people are so spiritually advanced that they create a shield from illness. But they can handle an illness better than if they were spiritually ignorant. And healing is about understanding spirit and using it practically.

TM: Does prayer help?

Master Jesus: Yes it does. But really the person who is ill must have a will to heal or nothing is going to heal him or her. Healing begins within. External assistance then accelerates healing by strengthening that which already exists and is in motion. There are some excellent studies addressing these claims.

TM: What’s happening in cases where the ill person wants to heal and his family and friends are praying for healing, yet he dies anyway?

Master Jesus: Again, you’re asking a very specific hypothetical question that really is impossible to answer. I know you want to know these things and yet I can’t provide the answers. This puts the burden on you to investigate for yourself in these very specific cases.

TM: How would I do that?

Master Jesus: Truly know the person fitting the description above. Do you really know what is in his heart? Do you know what is fear of death and what is true yearning to live? Do you know the guilt one feels as one nears death, and that it is at times unbearable? Do you know the longing for a life fulfilled and whether he is satisfied this is done, or there is more to be accomplished? Is there a gentle acceptance of death? Does he feel the pull of loved ones to keep him in this life for their sake? You must ask these questions and many more to fully understand an individual case.

TM: Are natural disasters prompted by humanity’s decisions too?

Master Jesus: Humanity has an impact on the environmental well-being of Earth. Weather patterns are most affected by humanity’s impact as the population grows. Earth is a living entity and as such has its own physical responses to that life that will occur with or without the presence of humanity. Earthquakes for example are purely geologic events. Global warming though is largely caused by humanity’s impact, but in other times has been naturally occurring. So while humanity must take responsibility for its impact on the health of the planet, it is in your own best interest to do so for your health. You are not separate from Earth.

TM: I know I’m asking questions out of the realm of education and religion, but I’m curious.

Master Jesus: I can speak on a number of topics, but I will bring it back to spirituality. This is the time for education to take center stage; otherwise, the age of synthesis will be missing parts to compose the whole picture. Humanity must see the whole picture.

TM: There are a lot of new spiritual books, conferences and workshops. Are they right in what they teach? Some of them seem to contradict other teachings, or at least present diverse ways of accomplishing the same end. How do we know which ones are accurate?

Master Jesus: Choose the ones that feel right for you. There is so much diversity because there is diversity among humans. Do you really believe for a moment there is one right way for everyone? At the same time, while you are choosing the right method for yourself, allow others to do the same. Blend your way with others. Any method that teaches that it is the only way is the one to avoid.

TM: We’re such social creatures though; we like to belong by identifying with sets of values. But then we make the mistake of thinking our way is superior and we want everyone to follow that way. If we could accept what you are suggesting I can see how it would work. I don’t see how to undo what is done.

Master Jesus: It will be undone by substituting a new understanding; the one we’re discussing; one that allows each person to select his or her inspiration without judgment or ridicule. The social connection must be viewed from the perspective of identification with the whole of humanity rather than the provincial identification. This is happening already within many circles and it will expand with time.

Ancient civilizations could not imagine human organizations spanning the entire world- they had no definition of the entire world beyond what they could see, and what they could see was limited. This civilization sees into the universe and yet still suffers the myopic view of its own insular world made up of petty prejudices and grievances. This will change. It will change because of a disaster that will create an environment that forces unity, or it will occur because of an enlightened populace. You choose.

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Conditions on Earth (Part 1): Jesus and TMichael

June 11, 2005 T. Michael 1 Comment

Condition on Earth Part 1, https://conversationswithjesusandbuddha.com/conditions-on-earth-part-1/ — Conditions on earth part 1

Conversation with Jesus and TMichael: Conditions on Earth (Part 1)

TM: This being our second writing, where shall we start?

Master Jesus: We shall note for the record that we are beginning this series of conversations on Easter Sunday in the year 2004. That may be significant to some folks.

TM: Should it be significant and if so in what way?

Master Jesus: First of all, there isn’t a ‘should’ involved. It either is or it isn’t significant based upon one’s orientation to these things. For some people, Easter is a big deal, wouldn’t you agree?

TM: Yes. But I have to say that for me, it’s not really.

Master Jesus: You say that but it’s not entirely true. When you were younger, in adolescence, you went to a Christian church every Sunday and Easter was a big deal in your life. Even your father who rarely attended services attended Easter Sunday. So, it was a big deal at one point.

TM: True it was then but it hasn’t been that way for over thirty-five years. I think I can say it isn’t a big deal now.

Master Jesus: It’s okay if it isn’t. The one fact you can’t escape in the influence of religious practice on society is that the significance of major religious events is en-grained in your being like DNA imprints on your physical body. They affect you whether you are aware or not. Human consciousness on the whole is not an individual affair. You can increase or decrease the affect by conscious awareness. The affect is there nevertheless.

TM: So, I’m affected in ways I’m not aware? Will you elaborate and give an example?

Master Jesus: You reside in a Judaic-Christian society. On Easter and during the weeks preceding Easter there is a build up of energy in the form of thoughts and emotions based in ancient traditions and expectations. Every year this energy recycles, gaining momentum from the previous cycles. When enough people experience this recycling of energy they perpetuate it through their contribution. And so it builds over time. Even though you may not participate in Easter services, you experience the affects of others in your society who do participate. Because you participated as a young person your connection to the experience is greater than someone who has never participated. Even that person will experience something despite his/her religious orientation.

TM: There is an air of worship and reverence I sense on Easter.

Master Jesus: That’s what I’m referring to, although it may register as something else to someone else.

TM: How many other beliefs and mass experiences does this same phenomenon occur?

Master Jesus: Whenever there is a strong belief tied to an emotional commitment with a large number of people, sustained for a long period of time, then this phenomenon occurs. Sometimes there are competing thoughts existing at the same time. When this occurs collectively you feel the energetic tension of opposition. This is the great duality that plays out constantly in human affairs. There is a saying to avoid politics and religion in polite conversation. That is recognizing the deeply engrained opposition and emotional force behind the tension—it is uncontrollable at times. It is reserved then for a different arena; one in which conflict can be explored.

TM: Is that why it is so difficult to change the way we do things in our society even when they are destructive?

Master Jesus: Did you have a particular example in mind?

TM: Yes I do. I’ve been thinking about our economic system of capitalism and how it has deteriorated over time. I see the initial guiding principles and see how it was altered. Along with many other people I want to change it so that it serves everyone, but the forces opposed to change seem enormous.

Master Jesus: What would you change about it?

TM: It’s almost too much to list here. In short, capitalism cannot be just about more—producing more, consuming more, pursuing more wealth for the purpose of perpetuating the cycle of production and consumption of more. We have to integrate higher values into the equation. I had a friend say to me that he thought that maybe the destruction of the Earth and many or all of the species was the right path and the inevitable outcome of this life experiment, and maybe then new life springs from that and a new cycle begins. He is a well-respected, financially successful businessman. When I heard him say that I began to understand the rationale behind the opposition to change.

Master Jesus: So, is your friend correct?

TM: I’m working from the premise that we don’t have to destroy everything if we have a consciousness that is inherently creative and can alter our path creatively to support life in an ever-changing dynamic.

Master Jesus: What if you’re both correct? What if these two points of view are true, then what?

TM: Then it’s a matter of choice. Our society can choose one or the other.

Master Jesus: And you’d like society to choose your point of view?

TM: Well, yes I do.

Master Jesus: And your friend would like it to go his way?

TM: Yes, I believe so.

Master Jesus: Then will you and your friend continue to support your respective points of view in how things work out in your society?

TM: I suppose we will unless one of us changes our mind.

Master Jesus: Then this is how it is for everyone on Earth at this moment. It’s about making a choice. Will you destroy life as you know it or will you creatively re-frame it? Does that seem over-simplified?

TM: I was hoping for a little more help I suppose. Maybe you could tilt it one way or the other.

Master Jesus: I guess you can say that I’m working on the side of humanity, which by the way includes your friend and all those who believe as he does. My work has been and is dedicated to assisting humanity in its decisions about living. A major decision is facing humanity now. Will you collectively choose destruction, death and eventual rebirth, or will you choose the next evolution of life from this point. There is no judgment either way, good or bad.

TM: You almost sound indifferent.

Master Jesus: You really want me to choose a side don’t you?

TM: YES! Choose, validate my point of view and give me the strength and courage to fight these bastards!

Master Jesus: And what about your friend? Shall I tell him I support his view so that he is encouraged as well? Or would you prefer I tell him he is wrong and he better get with the program, or else?

TM: Or else what?

Master Jesus: Or else he shall burn in hell of course. Isn’t that what happens to people who don’t get with the program? I’m pretty sure I hear that message quite often, throughout the world and from almost every religion, and evoked in political circles as well. I guess we’ve moved beyond polite conversation haven’t we?

TM: I think if you just simply told my friend and his fellow believers that their path of destruction is wrong, and then they would change because it’s coming from you and you’re the man. They aren’t convinced if I say it or if others in my tribe say it. But they’ll listen to you.

Master Jesus: Really? Why would they listen to me? What am I offering as proof that what you want is right and true for them?

TM: They will accept it on your authority. You are Jesus. In case you’re not aware, that carries a lot of weight. I think they would yield to your point of view.

Master Jesus: Believe me I’m aware of the weight I carry. So, it’s that simple. If I appear on Earth and say to humanity, listen, here are a few things I’d like for you to do at this time, then you believe that everyone will respect my authority and follow those simple directions?

TM: Well, not everyone, but enough of them to swing things the other way.

Master Jesus: Your way?

TM: Yes, for the umpteenth time, my way.

Master Jesus: I just want to be clear about whose way it is.

TM: Since you’re such a stickler for this distinction, many of us who believe this is the right way draw that belief from your teachings. So, I guess we assumed it was also the way you believed was right.

Master Jesus: I’m not sure I remember in which lesson I encouraged you to ‘fight the bastards’.

TM: Touché. But that’s just my emotion speaking. I’d rather not fight. I’d rather you persuade them with your magic and then we could all live happily ever after.

Master Jesus: Again I ask you, why would they listen to me if they believed I was on your side opposed to their beliefs?

TM: You are beyond humanity and know things we don’t. You are the man, the boss, he who rises from the dead. They will just be relieved to know you really exist and that you have an opinion on these matters. Of course they will follow what you say.

Master Jesus: They don’t believe I really exist?

TM: Maybe some of them do, but they think you’re returning some day and you’ll set the record straight then. But until then, they are not going to follow your teachings unless you explain it to them in modern terms. So, I guess I’m asking you to reveal yourself now and tell it like it is.

Master Jesus: You mean in your terms?

TM: Why don’t I just ask you to define it in your terms whether or not it resembles mine? I’m really not caught up on it being my way.

Master Jesus: Okay, I’ll do that for you. It’s a long story are you ready for that?

TM: Sure.

Master Jesus: Long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away….sorry, different story. But one closer than you can imagine to the real one. All of these stories have their origins in truth. There are many entry points for stories because there isn’t a beginning you see. At least there isn’t a beginning that we can identify in words that will express humanity’s story. We can also include humanity’s spiritual journey and that gets us closer to a beginning, but even that isn’t completely a beginning. I’m emphasizing this beginning business because humans are tethered to truth having a beginning and anything that doesn’t have a beginning must be false or non-existent. You’ll have to accept that your story doesn’t have a beginning or an ending. Are you with me so far?

For Conditions on Earth Part 2 click here.

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Spirituality and Governance: Jesus and TMichael

June 9, 2005 T. Michael 2 Comments

Spirituality and Governance, https://conversationswithjesusandbuddha.com/spirituality-and-governance/ ‎ — Spirituality & governance

Conversation with Jesus and TMichael: Spirituality and Governance

TM: Neither of you have ever taken much interest in politics and government in our conversations. And yet both of those activities have such a major impact on humanity that I wonder why you have stayed away from those areas.

Master Jesus: There are Masters who work directly with those institutions and we coordinate with them of course. Religion and spirituality must be transcendent, from the perspective of teaching, while incorporated as a matter of practical application. Humans must be free to explore their personal spiritual nature without encumbrance. If the process of spiritual self-discovery is intertwined with politics and government there is no way to allow complete freedom to the individual and control the many variables of a society.

Governments must be able to curb freedoms of its members to the extent that it is necessary to preserve peace and remove violence from their daily lives. But spiritual freedom is absolutely necessary to the individual if he is to reach his pinnacle of potential. He will in turn contribute mightily to society through his daily activities, like work and governance. It’s a mistake to think that spiritual understanding is a code for social governance at the group level, especially as diverse as are the populations of Earth.

TM: Yes, but governments are made up of spiritual and non-spiritual people who have to draw upon some code that is embodied in the laws of the land. Are you saying that the spiritual people shouldn’t suggest using spiritual understandings to guide the creating, enforcing and regulation of laws?

Master Jesus: I’m saying there is a fundamental difference between an individual understanding spiritual realities and a society choosing a code of conduct for its members. One is based upon complete freedom to explore and delve deeply into personal matters, while the other is dedicated to finding the most superficial level of engagement across a diverse array of personalities that must live together in peace and harmony. Without peace and harmony there is no point to governance because there is no point to living in a community. Humans congregate because it serves them to do so. Governance preserves the value of the community from a social perspective, not a spiritual one. By its nature, governance will have spiritual overtones if it consists of spiritual individuals. But it shouldn’t consciously strive to integrate spiritual codes into legal codes.

TM: I’m not sure I’m grasping this concept. Let me state it and you tell me- so if the members of a society tend to be spiritual themselves, even though they may not consciously try to mirror their internal spiritual nature in devising laws, it inevitably will mirror their spiritual nature. Is that what you mean?

Master Jesus: That’s close. But let me put it another way that may help you to understand. If I am a member of a society, I am also an individual. I accept that my social freedoms intersect with other members of my society and I accept that I may not express all of who I am all the time in the context of society. There is a governor so to speak on my actions in order to preserve the peace of my society just as others are doing the same. We agree to blunt our expressions to the degree that it is in the best interest for us to do so.

I am an individual who is permitted complete freedom to explore my spiritual nature and so are the other members. I can choose my beliefs and can worship whatever or whomever I choose in whatever way I choose. Now the big qualifier is that I can do this so long as it doesn’t involve me violating anyone else’s right to enjoy the same freedom. This means that my personal spiritual experience serves me individually and others who consent of their free will. But it shall not be imposed upon others.

The US and Canada have the closest approximation of this arrangement, as do some European nations and other democracies throughout the world. It requires a general sense of overall freedom in order to allow freedom for religious or spiritual pursuit. Governments that are authoritarian will not permit those freedoms because there will be an imbalance between the secular and the spiritual and eventually human nature will push for freedoms in the secular. Dictators know this and thus control religious freedom to a level equal to or slightly less than the secular freedoms.

The measure of a government’s willingness to permit spiritual freedom for its members can be seen in how it treats secular freedoms. Presumably in the freer societies, members openly participate in the adoption of codes of governance. More and more in your country have the leaders and powerful influences begun to strip away secular freedoms under the guise of security for all. You can see how this is working out and they understand that they must maintain the balance with religious freedom, i.e. religious freedom cannot expand beyond the secular boundaries. It will be a matter of time before small efforts will be made to curb religious freedoms. Without an adjustment in this way, they risk losing the ground they have gained in reducing the secular freedoms.

TM: I can see why you stay out of politics. So, I do understand the balance required. But it seems like a difficult thing to measure when changes are subtle.

Master Jesus: It’s a difficult thing to measure under any circumstances because of the complexities of modern society. But you do have a baseline of freedom from which any deviation can be marked. Just as there is a political outcry against reduction of personal freedoms, so too will there be a rejection of loss of religious freedom when that moment arrives. It is less subtle to those affected and they will signal the deviation from the baseline. Just listen.

TM: Will you speculate on a motive for reduction of freedom by those in power?

Master Jesus: I think that it is a mix of motivations, some are consciously aware of what they are doing and others’ motivations are so ancient that they are operating on automatic reactions of fear and greed. In modern societies, at least the past 2500 years, there has been recognition of this balance required between the secular and the religious, even when the religious right and might is used to govern the secular, and even when the secular powers have tried to extinguish or marginalize religious power. Politicians and rulers have learned that there must be balance even when it is slightly skewed to one side or the other. That may sound like a contradiction, but balance doesn’t always mean equal portions or weights; it isn’t needed to govern if your intent is to control others for your purposes. There is point at which one can push his agenda to achieve his goals while permitting just enough freedom to keep the whole system from falling over. The above statements, notwithstanding, the thing that cannot happen is that religious freedom cannot be greater than the secular freedom without the system toppling.

TM: Why not?

Master Jesus: There are two reasons. The first is that religious leaders can be prone to the same corruption spurred by power and vanity as secular leaders. If they are too much in a position of power because of an imbalance in freedoms it is more likely they will grab for the secular domain to pull under their power, which will force a reduction in the religious freedoms that helped them gain their power in the first place.

The second reason is that individuals are who free to pursue their spiritual life and spiritual understanding will eventually recognize the injustice in a system that too strictly rules their secular life and they will rise up against it.

So you can have a system whereby the secular freedom is equal to or slightly greater than the religious freedom and there can be balance. But the opposite is not true. There must be a relative balance up or down the scale in the ratio of permissiveness to restriction.

TM: Well, wouldn’t the result then be a balance, i.e. secular freedoms would rise slightly and religious freedoms might stay the same, but drop relatively?

Master Jesus: Yes, that is the point of my statement. A system whereby the religious freedoms are greater than secular freedoms cannot be sustained. There will inevitably be an adjustment.

TM: So, how do you coordinate then with the Masters who work in the area of government?

Master Jesus: We coordinate very much in the same way you on the physical plane would coordinate such an effort, but without the politics of egos and fear. We meet on a regular basis to discuss our respective plans and we identify areas that we can focus on together to bring about specific results that accomplish our respective goals. Please remember that we follow a plan that has been created by beings who are the creators of this world. So, in that sense we are working within a general framework that has anticipated many of the variables that exist today and has also provided many of the solutions for us to follow. There is a range of experimentation though and that is how we learn.

TM: I followed that, but want to know what you mean by “beings who are the creators of this world.” That sounds like we’re back to the alien discussion when you phrase it that way.

Master Jesus: I won’t repeat ground that has been covered in that conversation. But let me say that it takes awhile for you to accept the concept that there are other beings in the universe and that they just might have something to do with this planet and all its inhabitants. When I use the term ‘beings’ I am of course referring to beings of a spiritual existence who have created all the worlds in this universe. You cannot yet accept that this is true, yet you can’t offer an alternate explanation for how all this came to be. This assumes an acceptance that there is more than just the physical existence of what one can identify through the five known human senses. There is a great body of human scientific work to explain the purely physical part, and there is only religious work to explain what is behind it all. And that work is antiquated for the times and is now being updated through release of new information.

TM: You’re right, repetition is needed to help me get to some of the larger ideas. But I think I represent a lot of folks who have heard the same story for so long that it is difficult to let go of it even if we want to. Most of us struggle with balancing our checkbooks and finding quality time with our kids and friends, or just quiet time to contemplate these matters. I know you and the other Masters have compassion for us, but every once in awhile I feel I have to defend the difficulties of human life.

Master Jesus: All of the Masters who are in a position to lead humanity at this time have all served at one time or another in human form and well know the rigors of daily living. We also know the stubbornness of the human ego and how it clings to beliefs and attachments to desires of the flesh for comfort and a sense of security. We are reminded of our time in human form and what a struggle it was to go to sleep with the worries of the day upon one’s mind and how difficult it was to wake up and start the day when those worries had not receded through the night.

But don’t mistake our compassion as an excuse for the inherent laziness of the ego. We appeal to the soul of humanity to rise above the petty grievances of the ego and recognize your true selves. It is your ego that frets over the checkbook and whether or not your hair is clean enough, thick enough or pretty enough. It is your ego that wastes time and energy fretting over the million and one things that have to do with your self-image and how others see you that make you attractive to one another. There are deeper issues that will satisfy the soul’s longing for connection with each other, but you must drop your infatuation with the appetite of the ego and embrace what is important to your spirit. That is the role of the Masters, to bring you to that realization.

TM: Is it laziness of the ego or just ignorance? I know that when my ego runs on mind energy it tirelessly pursues its agenda; there’s nothing lazy about it.

Master Jesus: Yes, perhaps you are correct on this point under certain circumstances like worry or anxiety. But then there are the states of contentment for creature comforts that bring a wave of self-satisfaction to the ego and create an attachment to its comfort zone. This is more to my point of laziness.

TM: Would you say that the ego is the biggest problem in getting to the realization you’re referring to?

Master Jesus: The ego was born with the endowment of mind and elevated mental capabilities of humans. It has grown in proportion to those capabilities. Therefore, you see magnificent sized egos who also possess great powers of creation. Likewise you see powerful creators with virtually little egos. The ego is the primary impediment to realization of the true self, but it is not a permanent barrier. Nor is it in most cases absolute. That makes our work possible to succeed. For you as an individual to determine your success, it is a matter of allocation of personal energy, i.e. how much goes to ego manufacturing and maintenance and how much goes to integration of the self and higher creativity?

The ego is a creation of the personal self, meaning the corporeal-self. It is, in and of itself an amazing creation, except that it also insane and that negates the ingenuity of its creation. What human has not confused the ego for the true self? That is its power. It supplants the identity of the self and runs the show so to speak. The problem of course is that, since it isn’t real it requires enormous energy to create the illusion that it is real. It enlists the emotional nature because this allows it to manipulate the desire aspect, which it needs to preserve its own control. The physical body, to the extent it is capable is the servant to the ego and emotional desires. Thus one can see the corporeal-self and its identity as the ego.

TM: Okay, that’s a lot to absorb. One piece at a time. If the ego has been created by the corporeal-self, then it exists and is real, right?

Master Jesus: We have covered reality versus illusion, but can do it again if you wish.

TM: Maybe the lite-version to help with this.

Master Jesus: If I write a novel and create a character, is that character real or imagined (an illusion)? Would you expect to encounter that character on the street in front of your house?

TM: I could argue that the character is real within the context it was created. But for me walking down the street, no it is not real.

Master Jesus: Your ego and everyone’s personal ego are the characters created by you and everyone else. Your ego seems real to you as you live within the context that you have created for the ego and it will furnish you with other characters that it will script into your story for the purpose of maintaining the profile it wishes to maintain. In this vein, everyone is living within the context of a script written by her ego, who starts out as the character but transforms into the author. It is the filter through which you and everyone else lives. This is a personal reality in the way the novel is a personal reality of its creator the author. But from an objective observer outside that personal reality it is seen for the fiction that it is.

To summarize, the ego is your personal illusion, which all humans share and collectively create an entire field of illusion. Your true self lies hid behind the curtain of this performance waiting for reality to take the stage. The soul must make the recognition that the ego is not the real, true self and begin to dissemble the illusory world created by the ego. The ego of course believes that it is the real self and has already built in defense mechanisms for this attack on its existence. This is a great period of time of tension between the soul and the ego as the soul struggles to let go of the ego and the ego struggles to maintain its place of reality. The spirit is ever planting clues for the soul to recognize the truth in order to keep its appointment with reality and throw off the ego as impostor. Maybe this goes for thousands of lifetimes until finally the soul breaks free of the illusion and embraces the spirit, which begins the phase of integration.

TM: So, we’re all insane and live in an illusion because you and other spirits are our objective observes and tell us so. And your work is to teach us how to escape our illusion and arrive at the reality that you show is reality. How do I know that’s not just another illusion and one a damn sight worse than the one I’m in?

Master Jesus: As a teacher I don’t define reality for you, but I help you reach your true self who will inform you about reality. I can witness for you the truth, which I present and you can decide. And yes, at some level there is a truth, beyond which, we are incapable of knowing reality. That of course means that we are by some measure, in an illusion, but that point is so far beyond where we are today that it isn’t worth much to ponder.

TM: Damn, this system requires a lot of trust doesn’t it?

Master Jesus: Yes; that or fearlessness.

Conversations with Jesus and Buddha